The Changes Ahead Podcast

For people who find belonging in faith communities easy, how much do we pause to understand the experience of those who don’t. In this episode, we have the chance to hear from someone who is finding, after being in church spaces for most of his life, that experiencing true belonging was like being able to breathe for the first time.

After joining us for a sound bit at the 2025 Baptist Hui, Josh returns to share more of his reflections, laments and hopes. Shaped by the call to the margins of society, Josh challenges the church to take justice more seriously, at home and overseas.

What happens when someone starts asking questions and rethinking faith? In this episode, we hear some of Lily’s story as she shares how her evolving view of faith and the Bible is radically changing her impression of church, and as she wonders if too much comfort in church might be a bad thing.

Hear Debbie's story of the way her heart gets her into trouble, how her leadership prioritises the vulnerable and how seriously she takes Jesus’ command to care for the marginalised.

Cathy and Steven ventured out to the annual Baptist Hui last year, and asked the question “What do you wish for the church?” In this first episode of season 5, they reflect on the answers people shared. Thanks to all who came and chatted with us! Find more episodes on The Baptist NZ Podcast Network.

What does it feel like to experience religious trauma? Why is it so hard to put the experience into words? What do we need to be aware of in the church when it comes to how people experience our spaces, our teachings, our behaviour? In this episode, Anna brings some reflections from her own journey, and recent research into the phenomenon of religious trauma. A challenging but important conversation for us to wrestle with in the church.

In this episode, we hear from Hanna Massad, once a Baptist pastor in Gaza, who shares with raw honesty the agony of the unfolding situation in Palestine. Yet his voice is not one of bitterness, but of humility, mercy, and a deep longing for justice. Hanna invites us to see beyond headlines into the human and spiritual reality of life in Gaza, and to consider what it means to hold onto grace in the face of unimaginable suffering.

We talk a lot about change in this podcast series, and it seems that where change is imminent, often anxiety presents itself – both personally and institutionally. Becky expertly guides us through this dynamic, giving us some helpful re-framing and offering grace as we seek the best for our church communities.

In this episode, we talk with the husband of a Baptist pastor who isn’t afraid to challenge expectations. He shares honest reflections on navigating faith, identity, and community in a role often overlooked. Nigel pushes against cultural, gender, and church norms, inviting us to rethink leadership, partnership, and belonging in the life of the church today.

We are regularly asked about what we think about various things, including what changes ahead we see are necessary. Earlier this year, Cathy and Steven were interviewed on another podcast, Down To Earth Conversations. In case you didn't catch it over there, have a listen to some more of our story and our hopes for The Changes Ahead.

We sit down with a church elder wrestling with big questions: How do we manage our capacity as churches and as individuals? Would our churches be missed if they disappeared? And how do we stay curious in a culture that values certainty? It’s a thoughtful, honest conversation about presence, purpose, and the quiet power of asking open-ended questions. Whether you’re leading, limping, or somewhere in between, this episode invites reflection on why we do what we do—and who would notice if we stopped.

We are joined by the co-hosts of the popular Baptist NZ podcast ‘Biblical insights: The gospel and the land of the Bible’, who unpack their own journeys exploring the topic of Zionism. They discuss how a particular theological line of thinking and way of interpreting the Bible results in the justification of human suffering. In this challenging and personal conversation, they invite us to think beyond what might have been understood from the past to find God who “is on the side of suffering humanity.”

How can the experience of place-based institutions such as Sister Cities and Rotary Clubs inform where the church is at in 2025? Taylor shares from his research and offers some challenging insights and questions for us as the church.

Treating people with respect and without judgment when we disagree might be one of the hardest things to do, especially in our increasingly polarised world, society and church. Using personal stories and giving practical tips, in this episode, Hazel guides us in the art of disagreeing well.

Welcome to Season 4! We're starting with a compelling conversation with Bethany, who shares her journey of embracing authenticity in Wellington’s creative arts scene. She unpacks the dynamics of expressing her faith and identity as both a performer and a follower of Jesus.

As we close out 2024, we’ve got a couple of special guests commenting on what stood from the last year or so of episodes. Have a bit of fun with this AI review of The Changes Ahead Podcast! See you in 2025.

With the reality of less and less children and young people in our churches, perhaps it is time to listen to those who work directly with these generations – along with those generations themselves. Sarah is a Youth Development Worker calling the church to respect, uphold and value the voices and participation of children and young people as the church of today.

In this episode Sean, Cathy’s husband and Steven’s long-term mentor, shares from his decades of working with young people the importance of being present in people’s lives in order to speak into them before challenging followers of Jesus to embrace a faith that is not going to leave us comfortable and safe.

Anashuya shares her experiences of leadership and miraculous healing and how she has been and is being formed by both spaces. Ana invites us to think about what the future of the church might look like and where we are looking for its leaders. She shares the questions and wrestles that being ill and experiencing healing have raised.

With the recent release of Whanaketia – Through pain and trauma, from darkness to light, the final report from the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in State and Faith-Based Care, we reflect with Jaimee on its implications, why it is so important to engage with this as churches and the desperate need for change in our spaces to do everything in our power to ensure abuse is no longer something anyone experiences in our spaces.

What does mutual flourishing look like within relationships, and why is this an important change that is needed in our church narratives? Hear the story of two people figuring it out and seeing each other thrive as they seek the best ways for each other to live into and out of their gifts.

Why do so many young people in New Zealand experience homelessness, and why should the church be interested in being a part of the solution? Aaron Hendry has some ideas backed up by over a decade of working in this space. He is a youth development worker, writer, podcaster, and advocate for social justice who has a challenge for those of us with ears and hearts to hear.

Sometimes, it can be hard to see what the Spirit is up to in the church, but for Paul Fletcher, who spends most of his time beyond the walls of the church he leads with people who are on the margins of society, the activity of the Spirit is far more evident. We can learn a lot from those experiences if we are courageous. Paul’s work also involves selling Common Good Coffee; it’s three times as good as regular coffee, a business that, simply by us drinking a great cup of coffee, supports people in some of the most difficult circumstances imaginable.

Without stopping to think, it could be easy to assume that slavery is a thing of the past, but in this conversation with Sarah, we will find out just how prevalent it is and why the church should get involved in working to eradicate slavery from the world. Welcome back to season 3 of The Changes Ahead Podcast!

We've reached the end of another season, and to wrap it up, Cathy and Steven reflect on The Changes Ahead that we've heard this year and are trying in our church spaces through the lens of the recently released Wilberforce 'Faith and Belief' study. Thanks for being on the journey with us for another year!

When expectations don’t match reality, what is going to get us through? For Nat, a small business owner and mother of two, the values that underpin why she started her business sustained her in the professional and personal space she was in. As Nat shares her story, we get glimpses into how faith, parenting, business and church intersect to drive her forward and could speak to some of the changes ahead necessary for the church.

Why are you voting the way you are going to this week? How does faith inform the way you vote? Answering these questions can be tricky, but we reckon they're important ones to try. Since it’s election week, we thought we’d have a chat about what this means for us with Brook, someone who is passionate about engaging positively and faithfully in the political process.

As someone with interests in the sciences, alongside studying law, Arunan helps us wrestle with what faith looks like in the post-Christian world he is living in. While holding a deep commitment to the benefits of the church to society, he challenges us to recognise our status and position in order to live up to the potential we have.

In this raw and vulnerable conversation, social worker Mary-Anne shares her story of experiencing abuse, the journey of healing she is on, and the place of deep relationships in faith communities in that healing. TW: conversations relating to child sexual abuse, rape, suicide and domestic violence.

After experiencing PTSD, Sarah explored her own trauma story and, from that experience, offers amazing insights for us as followers of Jesus into how we can better support people on the spectrum of mental wellness and what the posture of the church and those of us who make it up should be towards each other as we all seek to integrate our bodies, minds and faith journey.

With courage and vulnerability, Deb and Alan invite us to listen to their story of navigating the complexity of unexpected news from one of their children. Prioritising love and safety, they share their journey of deep listening which leads them to a more profound understanding of how to love (or understanding new ways to love) their child who is transgender. [We acknowledge the diversity of thought within the church, in particular on topics of gender and sexuality.]

Jo is back to help us navigate conversations around porn, a topic that is too often ignored in church spaces. How do we have healthy conversations and give space to ask questions and figure out how to respond.

With grace, vulnerability, and honesty, Andrew shares the story of the death of his son. Hear how people around him responded, and about how his search for, and understanding of God changed. Together we reflect on something of the place of lament in our church spaces, and wonder how they might be transformed with more raw honesty. This is a raw episode, and so we encourage our listeners to take care of themselves as they sit with the story of someone else’s deep pain.

What does our response to the climate crisis require of us as individuals and faith communities? How does this response relate to loving our neighbours? In this episode, we hear from Chloe about her passion for sustainable living and how her discipleship impacts her study, future, church engagement and activism in the community.

We’re invited to listen in to one youth pastor’s experience of serving and working alongside Rainbow Youth at youth group. How has this work changed him? How has it impacted him? We acknowledge that this is a sensitive topic for the church today, and are happy to engage with anyone who would like to discuss the topic or episode.

What lenses do we bring to reading scripture? What are we missing by not considering the lenses different people bring to it? Jaimee offers us crucial insights into what a feminist lens offers the church today, including reflecting on the objectification of women that happens all too frequently in our church spaces. Jaimee’s reflections truly show us that feminism is good for everyone!

The word deconstruction within Christian circles can often have negative connotations. Kenneth encourages us, out of his story of living abroad in some really challenging contexts as well as his work in Spiritual Direction, to reconsider the way we think of the deconstruction process and find the love of God in the midst of it.

In this episode, we listen to Lindy’s story of leaving a high-demand religious context. We get to hear what that process was like; the trauma experienced both inside the high-demand space and the trauma of leaving. If we let it, the story can also hold a mirror up to our practices to identify any red flags. We also hear the hope of healing the Christian community can bring.

What does healthy sexuality look like? What are some of the challenges for people in faith-based contexts in this area? How can we celebrate the good that is our bodies? These are just some of the questions we explore in this frank and really important conversation with Sex Therapist, Jo Robertson.

We’re joined by fellow podcast host Andy Dickson from ‘Down to Earth Conversations’, who gives us an incredible vision for the simplicity of bringing a little bit of heaven down to earth by focusing on people first, embracing creativity, and always working towards what is just.

To acknowledge International Women’s Day, in a vulnerable and inspiring conversation, Grace talks about her journey following holy discontent into places of leadership and invites us to reflect on the way women are treated in the church, offering suggestions for the way forward. 

We start this new season hearing from Jess about her experience with politics as a Youth MP and how that impacts her view of faith and church, alongside the vital importance of meaningful representation and relationships so that all might thrive within faith communities.

In the final episode of the year and of this first season, Cathy and Steven reflect on what they’ve heard and what the changes ahead for the church might be.

As we begin to wrap up the first season of this podcast, we hear from two pastors who have listened to every previous episode. Together they highlight one of the themes that has been clear throughout all of the earlier conversations: of taking the time, and having a posture to listen to voices which bring challenge and critique.

What is it like to be exposed to new and vastly different ways of thinking to what you are used to? When we realise that there is always more than one way at looking at an issue, a question or truth, how do we reconcile that with our previously held perspectives. In this episode we hear from recent Carey Baptist College Pastoral Leadership graduate, Sacha Olson, about what her journey in these spaces has been like.

In recent times there has been some tension between the media and Christian faith. In this episode we talk to an award-winning journalist about how their faith intersects with their work in journalism, and explore together what the church can learn from those who are working in the media.

How can science and faith co-exist? How can science inform our faith? With the concerning implications of climate change for now and future generations, and if care for the planet is something humans are responsible for, where is the church in those efforts? We speak with Brook about his journey of expansion and his passion for working to reduce the impacts of Climate Change.

In this episode, we speak to Halee and Rui Peng, an entrepreneurial couple who are seeking to serve their community through sustainable business, alongside learning from people who are often not heard from in church that offer different and new insights into who God is.

In this episode we talk to Sarah about what it’s like to join a church without having grown up in one and the inevitable questions that come up in that process. Can we say, we’ll try to be like Jesus, instead of promising we definitely will be? What about how the church has contributed to the shame that some adolescents feel, and what can we do about it?

In light of the release of the Pathfinding report on the ARISE church, and Jaimee’s own reflections on its implications for the wider church, we unpack with Jaimee what it might look like if we were to take the 92 recommendations seriously. We’re invited to turn the spotlight on ourselves and consider our part to play as we wrestle with what the church is and who we are aspiring to be in Aotearoa today.

Are we just downloading information into people, or is it about journeying together to be formed in Christlikeness? In this episode Caleb reflects on his experience from his time pastoring and in his present role lecturing on the function of discipleship and how both church and theological institutions can either help or hinder that process. How too does the monocultural structure of the Western church contribute to a more ideological rather than character formation focus?

As someone who loves Jesus and is following the Spirit’s call to a different way of living, Nicole wonders if church as we know it is really it? Is church really what we get from the radical life of Jesus? She helps us imagine what could be and invites us to step into the unknown future ahead of us, without being weighed down by the pressures of the past.

In this first episode of The Changes Ahead Podcast, your hosts, Cathy and Steven chat together about why this podcast exists, and reflect on their hopes for what changes ahead there are for the church.

It is no secret that the church in the West is in decline and there seems to have been unending talk about the church needing to change. Despite this, the number of sustainable alternatives or even smaller changes to what most would be familiar with as church is tragically low. This podcast is capturing thoughts of people who can see the Changes Ahead of us. Together we’ll be challenged, provoked even, by the views of people who are thinking about how the church might thrive going forward. So we invite you to join co-hosts Cathy Marston and Steven Goulstone as we imagine the Changes Ahead. This minute-long introduction sets the scene for what is to come.